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Talk:Orochimaru
Barrier ninjutsu It was mentioned by Kabuto in chapter 290 Orochimaru used a barrier jutsu to protect his former vessel. I think it ought to be noted in his Other Skills subsection. Evidence: no links --Reliops (talk) 18:53, May 1, 2013 (UTC)Reliops :Do not link to scanlations, those are technically illegal. Just indicate chapter and page. I'm looking at two different translations, but only one mentions it being a barrier ninjutsu. We'd need to take a look at the raw. Omnibender - Talk - 19:01, May 1, 2013 (UTC) If you were to go on mangahere, chapter 290 pg 6 says he used a barrier ninjutsu to protect his vessel.JaZZBaND (talk) 21:03, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :And like I said, reading another scanlation, they don't use the term barrier ninjutsu, hence I pointed out the need of checking a raw. Omnibender - Talk - 21:10, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :: Ok. From what I can tell, though, is that in the 3 scanlations I saw, in addition to the raw, all seem to point to him using a "technique". Whether it's a barrier ninjutsu, or not, it does need mentioning, IMO. So, whatever you come up with, I will agree to.JaZZBaND (talk) 21:18, May 1, 2013 (UTC) :::The translation I read didn't say former vessel. They were seemingly discussing something related to Edo Tensei--Elveonora (talk) 11:58, May 21, 2013 (UTC) substitute technique? Perhaps some still remember my living corpse reincarnation topic and as you may know, it works by him swallowing a host and taking over by suppressing the host's soul and transferring his own into that individual's body, his own body then logically (soulless) dies. He wears a mask to appear like himself etc. but in case of Zetsu transfer, not only Oro's snake form looked differently, but the way he did it changed as well, entering the victim's mouth instead of swallowing, and physically merging and changing instead of just taking over with his soul. I believe I have come with a solution for this, that is what he first did was in fact White Snake Possession to enter the clone's body (I know it's ova only, this wouldn't be the first time when a technique or a concept appeared first in anime before canon) and then used Living Corpse Reincarnation the reason being for why he has changed into his original form is that through the zetsu clone body, he used Substitute Technique with his own chakra and changed into "himself" /solved?--Elveonora (talk) 17:01, May 5, 2013 (UTC) : I did some thinking on what exactly you mean, and I have to say that I agree. I admit, I was skeptical as to the differences between what he did to the Zetsu clone and Genryuumaru. Also, the same goes for what he was trying to do to Sasuke, during their brief battle. In addition, the way he took over the Zetsu clone body was, oddly, the EXACT SAME WAY as he did in that ova to Kajika; he took on Oro's eyes and voice, and ect ( before he took on his complete appearance/ before substitute technique ). As for the Substitute technique, I agree completely, as I was pondering the same thing! I used to be under the impression that he uses the Vanishing facial copy thing to replace his appearance. But after seeing that weird transformation, I noticed it was similar to Zetsu clones in the anime. I agree that, since we have a lot of evidence and it totally stands to reason he should have the the substitute technique, that we add the jutsu to his listing. I mean, we DID add wood release and the mention of sage mode, so why not the Substitute Technique? JaZZBaND (talk) 17:19, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Thank you a lot, the only reason why I even bothered to bring this up is because it surprisingly even makes sense and is logical and doesn't contradict anything, I would like an opinion of more people this time and not my topic getting ignored or forgotten (again... T_T)--Elveonora (talk) 17:47, May 5, 2013 (UTC) : So what do we do now? JaZZBaND (talk) 18:27, May 5, 2013 (UTC) I'm gonna kneel and pray for someone competent to actually give a damn in the least--Elveonora (talk) 18:32, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Well, it is a logical way to explain the differences on how the body changed between Orochimaru taking over Zetsu and Orochimaru took over other hosts, but until that actually becomes an issue in-universe, I don't quite see the necessity of pointing that out. I'm just not sure on why we'd bump White Snake Possession up the canon ladder. The use of Zetsu's Substitute Technique should be enough to account for the morphing into Orochimaru, even if he entered the host differently. For the moment, I see this explanation as a back up: if this ever becomes a subject of scrutiny, we already have an answer for it. Omnibender - Talk - 18:43, May 5, 2013 (UTC) Thank you for an acknowledgment ;) well, from my point of view, it's not a matter of issue rather accuracy of information provided/details etc. and this wouldn't be the first thing listed that wasn't spelled out word by word but rather concluded by materials already provided, thought and logic. You know to this day articles like Body Flame Technique and some others irk me, if it were on me alone, I would either drastically change, put up a "possibly false" notice or delete them. I'm sure not even 1% of fanbase gives a damn about this specific "issue" or rather case, but thankfully there are some that do, (I wonder who that may be...) but you do admit it contradicts everything we know about Living Corpse Reincarnation I guess so rather to assume it's a retcon or Orochimaru improved somehow on while being dead or simply Kishi decided to change it on a whim, this is what happened. Not to mention Orochimaru changing into... "Orochimaru" looks exactly the way Zetsu change into people and back. For the white snake possession, I find that one important as well as he couldn't just transform into white snake himself and swallow that clone since he was gonna die but had to do it through an alternative and that also fits the description.--Elveonora (talk) 18:55, May 5, 2013 (UTC) when head hit a wall I know no matter what I say, people are going to disagree despite evidence, but whatever. A wiki is being run by many editors and each of us wants to fight through our word as valid. So for another time, Orochimaru WASN'T sealed by Itachi's Totsuka Sword. Read again how Yamata no Jutsu works, he transforms HIMSELF into that giant snake, meaning any part of it is him I believe it's even in the databook, same goes for his white-snake form, those little snakes are his "arms" The snake that escaped wasn't a summoned one/a separate being with its own consciousness, it was part of his body just like the rest, thus him. Another misconception is that he separates and seals parts of his soul into Curse Mark carriers, he does only chakra, since there is a reason why this can't be true. The way how I comprehend it, is that as long as his chakra is hosted in a living vessel, his soul gets "stuck" to that being/individual and as such stays in the impure world, that's how I think it works. What I'm trying to say is that his consciousness and soul weren't in Anko since he bit her. The thing he has memories of his defeat prove this. To get back why "Voldemort-style" can't be true, it's simple. The Shinigami cutting his arms alone stripped him of power and rotted his arms. There were hundreds Curse Marks subjects, he would be a powerless corpse by now according to your version with his soul resembling, nothing... you could clearly see his soul to have been whole when Hiruzen was pulling it out. /rant end--Elveonora (talk) 12:16, May 21, 2013 (UTC) Orochimaru was sealed into the sword, and that's what it does (in application), regardless of how. But given what Orochimaru says about Kabuto, Cursed Seals, etc, it seems "part" of him is infact stored, whether it be chakra or a piece of his soul a la Voldermort. Orochimaru is a tricky person and he defies the laws of the Narutoverse in many ways. I cannot remember the thing abotu memories atm as I just woke up, but I'll say something later when I've "had my coffee".-- (talk) 13:30, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :What was sealed was most of his body, he obviously escaped, that being the snake. Not only as stated, the technique transforms him into a giant hydra, but also there wouldn't have been any reason to draw that snake at all if it weren't him. It even went to hide and watched from shadows till Itachi died, then right after his death, it (he) came out. The only thing stored in the Cursed Seals is his chakra, I already explained why the soul part is false, not only it was nowhere mentioned, it defies other factors, thus it's fanmade "fact" not to mention his memories.--Elveonora (talk) 13:53, May 21, 2013 (UTC) ::You can argue semantics until the horn blows (what?) but the fact remains Orochimaru was sealed into the sword and effectively "killed". If that white snake was another part of Orochimaru and it got killed, in the end it died anyway. So regardless is regardless he was effectively dead. ::Now the other issue is your issue with him coming back to life via Cursed Seal. I...don't get the issue. He, all of him, came out of the Cursed Seal, aware of himself and aware of up to date on current events. I'm not sure...what the problem is there.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 14:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :::The problem is he wasn't sealed after all if a part stayed and got later burnt by Amaterasu, so it's not a fact. The issue is that the consensus is he separates his soul which simply was nowhere stated and can't be true because the only separated part of his soul were his "arms" which he got back recently. Also if it were true he separates himself into multiple potential "Orochimarus" then the one from Anko couldn't know Sasuke much at all--Elveonora (talk) 14:12, May 21, 2013 (UTC) ::::Ah, I see. Except he was sealed. Even if it was "part of him" it was sealed into the Sword. Even if the small snake did try and flee and survive, it got killed anyway. So regardless after the Itachi vs Sasuke battle Orochimaru was dead. ::::As for soul separation. Dafuq if that even makes since in universe. At the end of the day he was sealed, dead, whatever, and he got brought back via Cursed Seal, body, memories, and all. The fact Anko branded when she was young, and Orochimaru had memories of his actions including the Third chosing the Fourth as Hokage, his decision to leave the village, Naruto and Sasuke betraying and killing him the potential "Orochimarus" as you put it are up to date and basically Orochimaru as he was "at death".--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 14:26, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :::::That's why it's more than likely the "up-to-date" "Anko Orochimaru" is the very same so "sealed" (in fact killed by amaterasu) Orochimaru. The way it's interpreted now suggests that there could be an army of Orochimarus just by doing what Sasuke did on every Cursed Seal person. The same individual can't live twice. Edo Tensei makes it clear soul is required to revive someone, so chakra and DNA aren't enough, just look at Hashirama's Living Clone it's dead. Only by using Yin-Yang release could Madara "breathe" life into these Hash clones and make Zetsu. The only time a soul separation was done is Death Reaper no jutsu arm incident thingy. Again, there were hundreds of Cursed Seal carriers, he obviously didn't cut his soul into many pieces, look only what arms have done to him. Hopefully it's clear. So not only we at wikia incorrectly state he was sealed, but that he is a cloned Voldemort--Elveonora (talk) 14:50, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :/sigh Except we didn't incorrectly state he was sealed. The sword seals those it hits. He was sealed, hell he even spoke as he got sucked into the sword. Hell technically he still is sealed. The article suggests that a potential army of Orochimaru's exist because with the information we have, that is exactly the case. If or not multiple Orochimaru's can be Evil Unsealing Method'd out of the Cursed Seals is possible, we may never know, but we do know two things: he was sealed/killed/whatever and Cursed Seals can revive him out of that state. We can argue semantics and different interpretations till the end of time if you prefer, but what we have is what we have. He died/sealed/blahblahblah and returned.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 15:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :Except that's how it happened, sweety. Sasuke revived Orochimaru, who was dead, by using the Cursed Seal (chakra, part of him), some technique, and a piece of his DNA via Kabuto (who was infected by Orochimaru's cells). The Cursed Seal is placed with Senjutsu chakra, which is poured into it. Despite being split from it, his consciousness remained in it, explicitly stated by Orochimaru when he says he "saw" everything from the Cursed Seal, and immediately after when he said how he did it. Dislike it all you desire, Elv, but that's exactly what happened. Given flashbacks, he could have done it with anyone that he placed a CS on/in. It's not about cutting his soul into pieces, because that's not how the Narutoverse works; it uses other things. And it's how it works in Naruto, and you just have to accept that. -- (talk) 15:16, May 21, 2013 (UTC) ::Hey there Orochimaru was sealed and destroyed but not he still lived on through his chakra (being present in others such as anko) now Orochimaru is a freak and has mastered 'many' Jutsu he must of developed the cursed seal for another reason being to live on through it and feed off the vessel, now he was sealed by Itachis' sword yes, that part of him was His body but Orochimaru has displayed that he can create many vessels of himself, how he Is present in the manga Justifies that he could of developed his chakra to turn Into a living being (Just like tailed beasts) and be freed and live on In another body thats what i think -- (talk) 15:18, May 21, 2013 (UTC) :::The person above Is me I Just wasn't logged In but remember Orochimaru Is clever and probvably would of created such a Jutsu that could turn his stored chakra Into a living being --ROOT 根 (talk) 15:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)